here comes in something that i've asked a few of my mates here for a while and the discussion always leads to the same position.

more then once i've asked myself the question of What is god? or who is god? or how big? or how small? `n blah blah blah ... which leads me into another aspect of everything .... psychology....

Let me elaborate,

Everything around us is finite. From tedious little things like tables `n chairs, to war machines, to the size of the earth, to the size of the sun, the size of our solar system, the galaxy, and as per recent theories and discoveries, the universe itself has a size on it.

In fact, the universe itself has a age on it according to modern science. The theories to determine the age of the universe are just that, theories but they are based heavily on the speed of light, along with the stars in the night sky. So if you simply want a quick glimpse at time travel look up, a number of those stars you see every night have already died thousands of years ago, you just don't know it cuz the light has been travelling for all those millions of miles. Now, since science puts an Age, and infact even an expiary date on the universe itself.

You must be wondering why i'm saying all this shit, well its simple, we've been since even before our inception conditioned (brain washed so-to-speak) to the concept that EVERYTHING on it has limits. Including us.

So i'm not saying that it is wrong to ask "How big is god?" what i'm saying is there is a fault in the question itself. Abrahmic religions claim that the earth the moon the stars EVERYTHING was created by God,

Which means that before god created them, the dimentions didn't exist, no X-Y-Z Axis. So its logically appropriate to state that for god to exist he didn't need the x-y-z axis.

Next comes mass, Matter itself was created by god again, so we can't really ask what does god weigh because he existed before the creation of matter.

Thus he/she has no size or weight. Because if the dimentions did exist, and so did matter, then what is the point of worshipping such a God, he would be intermediary, thus we should look for the one that created the x-y-z.

and here is a real mind boggler, ever stopped to think that it was indeed god who created time? so the question of how old, or young, would also be an in appropriate one.

So God is NOT limited to dimentions (size), mass (weight), or age (time). So it is impossible for us to determine his composition. The pastafarians claim of god being noodle soup might be as good as the few mortal "God Kings" that history shows us.

To the human brain, which is consumed within the very finiteness, and finality of everything to understand the concept of God is nearly impossible if we limit ourselves to the boundaires we are conditioned with.

p.s. these are personal view points of mine, and i'm reasonably certain there could be a ton of loop holes in that concept as i consider myself rather illiterate on the subject. and don't hesitate to point out any of those loop holes beacuse each time i find a mistake it only gives me reason to improve myself, OR go and look up why i made the mistake in the first place.

Hope i helped.

That's quite a good observation. So in summary, to you "GOD" is:

a. timeless - not in the field of time; there's no beginning nor end (ie: it's eternal)
b. formless - no dimension
c. massless - no weight/mass

What do you know in life that also have these three characteristics?

For me it is the following... God is hawk as we all know and I believe in JaH. Also was a "hardcore atheist" until around 2 years ago... I dont really know why it changed.

JaH is a divine power which created the world. This divine power spread all over the world and remains in everything. The power is "positive". So accordin to my rasta tribe "god" isnt something/someone controllin the world from the sky but its a power within us.

Although a few rasta tribes believes in parts of the bible (I dont believe in much there) and consider god as someone in the sky. Those tribes are a branch of the jewish religion.

The rasta believes vary alot from different persons... some call rasta religion "Monoteism" while others call it "panteism".

Hope you all understand what I wrote since I used dictionary for 50% of this text.

To me... God is a bogymen "invented" by our ancestors to keep some sort of a order between the sinners, I mean look at the movie The Village http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB55bv4B8LQ and at "the ones we don't talk about"...

well... the bogyman would be the unclean, the fallen angel, lucifer, satan... he is more of a savior in most religions. i agree on the fact that religion is something invented by a few and the reason for this was power and politics.

A dot has form.... a dot is a 1 dimensional object. It also has mass since it occupies space.
So it fails all 3 aspect.

To clarify some things that might be misleading. Space and time are separate entities. Do not confuse space with the universe.

Universes (galaxies) occupy space and are also under the influence of time. However, space and time have no relations to each other and do not affect each other.

The other thing is to summarize the 3 criterias of Xs to something more simple. Anything that is timeless, formless, and massless can also be said as "outside the field" of space and time. Because anything that has form or mass, must occupy space.

In other words, to Xs, "GOD" is beyond time and space; which can also mean beyond mind and matter.

Btw Xs, you cannot say that "space" is "beyond time and space". To say "space is beyond space" is a paradox; but then you also mentioned an expirary to "space"; so I must assume that you were refering to the "universe" instead (ie: confusion between space and universe). So think of something else.

There are many things in the world that fits this. They are the forces of nature. I'm pretty sure you can name a few :)

ill skip this thread XD

... me too... too deep here!!!! Don't want to get in between Xss and Yinn debate here!!! :arrow:

hehe, it's not a debate... I know that Xs is not playing any games at the moment, so I'm just throwing ideas in his head to keep him entertained.

Feel free to throw in your thoughts... there is no debate, it's not about right or wrong; it's just a matter of how you feel.

No, what you are refering to is shapes and geometry. The dimension here is in term of position in space.

A dot has one X,Y,Z coordinate in space. A line has two X,Y,Z coordinates in space.
A plane has 3 X,Y,Z coordinates in space, and a cube has 4 X,Y,Z coordinates in space.

Therefore, a dot has 1 dimension in space.

Don't be confused between spatial dimensions and geometric dimensions; these two represent different things.

ok... i get your point but then i have another question: by saying that God is "formless-no dimension", do you mean that GOD is nowhere and everywhere in space without a geometric dimension and without a clear spatial dimension?

my opinion is (to cut a long story short)

God = fairy story, myth, fable

i would never consider me as a atheist, i just don`t belive in any religion... cause they HAVE ALL THE SAME GOAL,FUNCTION,AIM

and it is TO MAKE MONEY!!!

religions are just to scare little kids, so they eat their meals, do their home and schoolworks,... and so on...

Lol sorry my first post ended up too big so i had to double post in order to respond to invoker.

Invoker wrote:

my opinion is (to cut a long story short) God = fairy story, myth, fable i would never consider me as a atheist, i just don`t belive in any religion... cause they HAVE ALL THE SAME GOAL,FUNCTION,AIM and it is TO MAKE MONEY!!! religions are just to scare little kids, so they eat their meals, do their home and schoolworks,... and so on...

Check out www.firstchurchofsatan.com ... it costs you USD 25 to become a "Satanist" ... without which you can not ...

Most of the other mainstream religions do NOT require money at all on the contrary they deem money as something which is immaterial and unnecessary. It is counted as a worldly possession and thus will give you NO gains in the spiritual world. So which are these religions that Ziedgiest: ADDENDUM speaks of?

To my limited knowledge, the church asks for money only so that it can continue functioning, however, based on the services it gives, you could look at it even as a fee to give those services.
The same is applicable to Judaism. and with 100% certainity i can say that Islam considers money as redundant to its very core. If you want i can quote you more then once incidents within the Quran which say that money is earthly.

Like other religions, Islam says that the money (or wealth) you have give it out to the poor, so that a balance in society is established. Infact one of the pillars of Islam is "Zakat" which is the compultion of giving a percentage (if you are affluent) of your wealth, to the poor. When i say the poor, then you are to do this YOURSELF.

Maybe the makers of the movie were too busy studing osiris and zeus so they thought that those greek/egyption traditions of Kingly gods along with their golden burials still exist. I ask you, what money has YOUR religion gained out of this.

When i ask you this, i do NOT ask if your Religious leader sqandered money, for he/she is but human but i ask which religion asks for it. and yes, there is a difference mate.

Whenever you see a documentary, see it with a pinch of salt, for centuries ago Galileo Galilei was called a heretic for promoting heliocentricity (we revolve around the sun) rather then geocentricity (everything revolves around the earth) while on the other hand the scripture itself was written (331 years after Death) by men. By a time where the actual people from the life of Jesus had died, who even in his life had a rather small following, and no I don't mean to take on Christianity that would be wrong since being a Muslim I believe in numerous things that Christianity preaches, rather i mean to introduce the concept of Chinese Whisper but lets not get into that.

Daaam... Xs's post is too long and talks about too many things. I don't even know which subject to respond on next.... maybe I'll let these topics sit to be digested a bit more.

why are you so sure that time exists also outside of our own universe?

wow, this is one hell of a interesting topic

im abit too dum to take part in your conversation but imo there is a "god" or higher force coz everything needs a start. If the big bang theory is true (i think thats what it is but like i said im stupid xD ) and the universe was a tiny atom or whatever then wouldnt that atom have had 2 come from somewhere?

so wouldnt there be a god or somthing like it to creat that atom?
(way off topic from what yall saying but you guys are 2 smart xD)

Cyclone, we're not comparing intelligence here; so don't worry about being "dum" or "smart".

We are just picking on each other's brains for fun.

Angelica, I splitted the topics so that everything won't be cram into this thread. So post your opinions on the right topics.

Cyclone wrote:

... so wouldnt there be a god or somthing like it to creat that atom? (way off topic from what yall saying but you guys are 2 smart xD)

Not off topic at all... that's a good assumption... but then I can continue to ask who created that God that created that atom?

well if like u said that god is infinite then there wouldnt need to be someone to creat him although i get what ur trying 2 say

i'll post my question in the time topic but after cyclones posts i repost my question here with a little change:
We came to the conclusion that GOD was not created in this universe and that maybe he created this and other universes. It is said that GOD is timeless so that he's not influenced by time itself. If GOD is there (outside and inside ouf universe) and is not influenced at all by time, why do you think that time itself exists outside our universe? Because if GOD is timeless, there is also the probability that there is no such think as time in "GOD's world", so he is not bond to the time principle that everything has to have a beginning and an end.

If GOD is indeed timeless, then he can't exist nor appear inside our universe because otherwise he would not be timeless since he has entered the field of time (our universe is under the influence of the time continuum).

To say that a timeless GOD can exist or appear in our universe at any time he wants, that would be a paradox as well as illogical because it would "break" the time continuum itself.