Which comes first? and why?

Is this a evolutionary question (egg) or a philosophical one (cyclic time? i knew you would try it again with your examples regarding it...)?

As biologists decided, based on the fact that genetic material does not change from egg to adult, first came the egg :)

Is it a fact that genetic material does not change from egg to adult?

ie: if we zap a baby elephant with alpha/beta/gamma/.../zeta radiation, it will not mutate?

How about an analogy example... which comes first? fire or smoke?

But I'll post my opinion. There is no answer to the question because the question is wrong. To ask if a chicken or egg comes first is analagous to asking where is the beginning and end of a circle. There is none.

Then it raises the issue of "where do the chicken and egg come from?". That would mean questioning the origin of its existence.

Actually, I assume you've never heard of Dry ice, or seen liquid nitrogen at room temperature ... you can have smoke without any fire.

So you can have smoke without fire.

Infact, ever seen bamboo "burn", it does so without any flame.
Ever seen a cigarette "burn"?, it gives out smoke without any flame.

p.s. smoke/fire ain't a circular relationship unlike chicken/egg ... slap slap ... in fact quite the opposite, a fire can drown out in its own smoke ..

without any question, the smoke came before the fire, because the cigarette industry existed since before time which is why even though its the most lethal/addictive drug in the world (along with alcohol) it still isn't banned ...

now who's got a cigarette???

lawls...what i said was an..."old saying" from my country :) ..it wasn't ment to be serious.. :P

Bahh...

You know fire doesn't mean an actual flame right? Fire can be like a burning coal fire, or tip of the cigarette, or a forest fire, or a candle, or a lamp, or the sun, or super nova.

Also, dry ice/liquid nitrogen does not give up smoke. The definition of smoke is carbon + water exhaust/emission. For dry ice/liquid nitrogen, those are just water vapor condensation (similar to breathing out in cold air).

And yes, the analogy is exactly the same as chicken and egg; because fire & smoke is a causality (or rather duality). If you find one, you must find the other. They exist in pair (eg. light/dark, right/wrong, etc...).

why wouldn't it?

since the chicken, before being a chicken whent through a series of evolutionary states, i would have to say the egg came way before. there where eggs since the begining of multicelular life. also since the chiken became a chicken trough a series of tiny random mutations that happen from generation to generation, the egg came before the chicken. something resembling a chiken layed an egg that gave birth to the modern chiken.

interesting... so what do u call something that resembling a chicken if not a "chicken"?

I wasn't refering to genetics or taxonomy... rather

what do you call something that looks like a chicken, tastes like a chicken, sounds like a chicken... but not a chicken?

That makes no sense whatsoever, if you ignore genetics, and i take you're making a point of something having 'almost all' chicken-like qualities and not just the observable traits, a philosophical chicken-but-not-chicken if there ever were such a thing is either a chicken or its not, you're either just not looking closely or dont know as much about chickens as you'd like to.

I guess you missed what I was trying to say.

My point is that if it looks a chicken, runs like a chicken, sounds like a chicken and tastes like a chicken, then it IS a chicken.

So to say that something that resemble a chicken (but is not a chicken) laying a real chicken egg, to me, is wrong.

That resembling chicken is IN FACT a chicken... just a precursor chicken :)

precursor chicken is not a chicken. precursor chicken may be able to procreate with a precursor duck (and spawn chucks :P) but a chicken isnt...

So are you saying that, you are you, but you are not you??

I mean, what defines you from him; or a chicken from a precursor chicken then?

huh what spam?, i do agree xD

btw solution --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken-and-egg_problem (trying to make posts non-spammish)

:P

80-85% of the info on wiki may be correct but wiki is just informative and rarely a solution...
Nearly everyone can edit a wiki page (that's why Romania got Labagii Games to distribute the romanian version of 9Dragons) so the info is peaty much unreliable...

well there is the response section which kinda makes sense....

aww dang

definately not the section for me, ive given up of forum discussions loooooooooooooong ago...

now its all 'for the lolz age' :-D